Our discussion of Kraken by China Mieville

As always, we had a great, lively discussion last night.  Which gives me an opportunity to say, before I talk about what we said, that I really appreciate that our group has such great discussions.  Thank you, everyone!   So, with that said, here are some of the highlights of what people had to say last night (with pseudonyms for those who want ‘em):

• Theresa started us off by noting that when she was picking up Kraken at the library, she found another book: Kraken: the curious, exciting, and slightly disturbing science of squid by Wendy Williams.   So, if China Mieville’s story has you in the mood to read about squid in real life,  we’ve got a book for you.  Thanks, Theresa!

• Menolly and Theresa both mentioned that Kraken reminded them of Daniel O’Malley’s book, The Rook, which the group had read previously.  Menolly also mentioned one of Mieville’s other books, Un Lun Dun, which the group had read.  She said that some of the characters reminded her of this book, but that there was also the same sense of wordplay and fantastical creatures.  She also said that she found it interesting that there was a lot in the book about faith and belief, and how belief can create a faith.   Theresa continued this point, saying that, “Faith is a way of talking about the things we think about,” and that those stories let us analyze our past and future, as well.

• Furry said that she liked how Darwin’s specimens in the book figured in, and how what they represent is more important than the actual specimen.

• Glenn said that he liked a lot of the concept in the book, but found it hard to follow at times.  Furry agreed, and said that at the point where Billy gets commandeered, it’s like “Who’s on First?”

• Theresa mentioned that she liked how the author set things up to be believable.  She said she’s recentl been reading some H.P. Lovecraft, and that some of the commentary on Lovecraft explains how a narrator can convince a reader about the believability of something in a story. 

• Not everyone, though, liked the book.   Which, of course, makes for good discussion.   Mike said he really disliked the book.  He felt Billy needed to grow up, saying, “He runs around like a ninny.  ‘Aaahh!  The squid!!!’”   He didn’t care for the author’s writing style, and said he read chapters and then would be unsure of what had just happened in the story.  He also felt he couldn’t relate to the language, and was getting annoyed with the author.  However, he then talked about Kraken in relation to another book, The Martian by Andy Weir.  For Mike, The Martian was a book he enjoyed and related to, mostly because of his own background and experiences with science, and engineering.  He said, “For readers who like this book (Kraken), they’ll feel like I did if they read The Martian.”   He pointed out that he most likely didn’t enjoy Kraken because he didn’t have the background or knowledge of the content, to enjoy it.     

• I’m going to interject something here, which I don’t usually do ---- but I really feel that Mike hit the nail on the head here, and did it gracefully, at that.   I often use the word “resonate” when I talk about books, because I feel that each person reads a book differently, and whether or not that book resonates with them has to do with their own experiences, and life (and sometimes, when it is that they’re reading the book).  I know that personally, I sometimes don’t enjoy a hard science fiction as someone else in the group because I just don’t have a science/math/engineering background.

• Continuing Mike’s thread, Menolly commented that she thought this was a good point, and that her first time reading a book by Mieville, she felt the same way.  However, now that she has read a few of his books, she feels more comfortable.

• We had some general discussion about how elements of this book reminded readers of other books, like American Gods and Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman.  Burt Macklin, FBI, did note that he liked the idea of the gods having power because of belief.  This reminded him of Gaiman’s American Gods, and even his Sandman stories. 

• Talking about Neverwhere led us into some additional discussion focusing on Goss and Subby.  A few readers said these two reminded them of Mr. Croup and Mr. Vandermar from Neverwhere.   Mike said he wondered if this is a kind of British trope, to have a pair like this.   Jen mentioned that she really likes Croup and Vandermar, and kind of liked Goss and Subby, as well. Burt Macklin, FBI, said that he felt anxious each time he encountered them, and actually felt like “It offended my sense of fairness.”  He felt they were a bit too unstoppable and relentless.

• Menolly said that one of the things she likes about the author is that he is a very literary writer who uses language very purposefully.  While this doesn’t make his books easy reads, she finds it makes them very interesting.    We had some general discussion about some of the language in the book.  Derek pointed out she liked how he took the Church of Kraken and gave it is own terminology, for example.   He also mentioned that with this author, that he included a lot of “geeky” references, as though he was wondering which readers would catch on.    And speaking of language, and writing style, Theresa mentioned how much she liked the various puns in the book (and read us a few of her favorites).

• Glenn mentioned that he found the author’s creativity to be amazing.  He stated he wouldn’t mind joining a few of the cults, just to see what they’re like.   He enjoyed a lot of the different elements of the gods, as well, like the Memory Angels and Wati.   He also said that this reminded him of what he liked about The Rook, where you could make whole books out of some of the different elements in the main story.

• Furry said that one of the things she really liked was how there was always something new in the book…. Something weird.  She also liked how the story was sometimes non-linear, and it was hard to see where it would all end up.

• We did have two readers who listened to the audiobook.  Burt Macklin, FBI, said that the reader was ok, and that listening to the book made him feel like it was hard to keep track of what was happening in the story.  He felt like there were too many things/sects/people.  Taylor, who also listened to the audiobook, agreed, and said the characters were what kept her listening.  Burt also mentioned the character of Marge, and how she really wasn’t used enough in the story. 

• This led to a conversation about the character of Marge.  Theresa said that she liked Marge, because she was the one person piecing things together who had no knowledge of that world.  She’s the one who uses the Internet, and finds the chat rooms, and is basically the human element.  Derek mentioned that Billy is that way, until he gets sucked into the world, and Theresa agreed, saying that Marge remains totally this way, and is the one mundane in the story.

• Hola commented that she thought it was a little funny that Billy turns into a bad-ass by the end of the story, and that she didn’t quite buy it.  She also commented about Marge, and that she seemed particularly clueless, which made her want to say, “Stop!  Don’t do that!  Leave it alone!” when encountering Marge in the story.
• We talked generally about a few other characters, including Paul/The Tattoo.  Some readers found this character to be especially scary, although Menolly said she was surprised by how easy it was to subdue The Tattoo once they did it (she expected it would take more). 
• Greg said that for him, the highlights in the book were Collingswood, Wati, and the striking familiars.  He had difficulty getting into Mieville’s book, The City and The City, but found this book was more accessible, and enjoyed the linguistics and wordplay.
• Theresa made a comment about the story, and said “How much more interesting would National Treasure have been if there had been a squid.  Or magic?”    This, of course, opens up another whole train of thought about just how different many stories would be if there was a squid.

The group gave this book the following codes: BH, GB, CYT, MAG, IMM, COP and REL – and the averaged-out rating was a 4.    Please feel free to continued our discussion, and leave a comment!